Electric fuel pump

philboughton@sprintmail.com

11/29/2000 02:59 PM



I just finished installing the JC Whitney electric fuel pump last
night.  Thanks to everyone that recommended this.  It works
beautifully.  My car starts up within 10 sec now.  I know it is not
original but I will drive the car much more because I will not have to get
the neighborhood out to help me push the Porsche "down the hill" and hope
it finally gets going.

 

64 C 

Phil Boughton


Smifer@aol.com

11/29/2000 03:36 PM

I've bought a 6 volt electric fuel pump from JC Whitney, but haven't
mounted it. What is a good mounting place for the pump? I understand the
floor board area between the passenger and driver side below the fuel cock
has been used - any other places? Also, can the top of the pump be unscrewed
and reversed? The mounting bracket is such that if I mount it below the fuel
cock, it seems that the "in" & "out" tube for the gas hoses are reversed
which would call for longer hoses & more bending (& maybe kinking).
What should be done about the mechanical fuel pump?
Also, the 6 volt pump has no adjustment screw for fuel pressure - am I to
assume the pressure is pre-set and correct?
Your thoughts please - Brad Smith - Frankfort, KY. '59 Convt D 356A Super

philboughton@sprintmail.com

11/29/2000 05:46 PM

Brad
I put it just below the fuel shut-off/filter on the top of the "U with
flanges" shaped brace that runs from the middle of the car forward at 45 deg
to the right wheel area (passenger side). I put the bracket below to drill
the four holes then put the bracket and pump on top of the "U with flanges"
brace and installed the tap screws from the top. I turned the pump as much
as possible so that the in and out pipes were almost pointing forward and
aft. I left the "in" pipe pointing forward and the out pointing aft. It
was very easy to run a new fuel line from the shut-off/filter connector to
the "in" pipe and connect another fuel line from the out to the steel line
going aft to the motor. I do think you can take the top off of the pump and
turn it 180 deg and get the in and out to reverse themselves.
Do not touch the normal mechanical pump. That is the beauty of this pump it
is flow through and self regulating. When you first turn it on you will
hear the pump action. When it has achieved the correct pressure of about
2.5 psi it shuts off. Once the car is running you can turn it off and the
"flowthrough" action will allow the normal engine fuel pump to provide fuel.
I put a toggle switch under the dash to run this pump.
I am sure you will be happy with the electrical pump.
Phil
----- Original Message -----
From:
To: ; <356talk@356registry.org>
Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2000 10:36 AM
Subject: Re: Electric fuel pump

> I've bought a 6 volt electric fuel pump from JC Whitney, but haven't
unscrewed
fuel
to
Super


pickeringchash@juno.com

11/29/2000 08:03 PM

Brad -
I installed my electric fuel pump in the engine compartment on the rear
wall across from the mechanical fuel pump and put a fuel pressure
regulator on the line to the carb. I rigged mine with parallel fuel
lines (with cut-off valves) so that if my mechanical pump went out I
could use the electric as the primary pump. Normally I use the electric
pump only to prime the carbs for immediate start-up. To more complicate
the installation I have two lines of power connected to a duel toggle
switch. One switch is for priming (filling) the carb, the other passes
through an oil pressure switch as a safety measure in case I'm using the
electric pump full time and there is an accident (like being rear-ended).
Without the pressure switch the pump would keep going unless I
remembered to switch it off. Obviously, remembering to turn it off or
being able to after such an accident should not be left to chance. I
picked up most of this from previous list comments on this subject.
Charlie Pickering
'64 C Coupe

On Wed, 29 Nov 2000 10:36:03 EST Smifer@aol.com writes:



two87eastbay@earthlink.net

11/29/2000 09:19 PM

Your right, but we mounted it there so it would be accessible to the
passenger. I have another one behind the drivers seat.
Dina
55 Speedster
----- Original Message -----
From: "Todd Rudaitis"
To: "'Dina Reed'"
Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2000 12:48 PM
Subject: RE: Electric fuel pump

> Dina writes:
accessable


tobinp@ix.netcom.com

11/30/2000 05:25 AM

pickeringchash@juno.com wrote:
Charlie -
Congratulations! You did it right. Parallel plumbing of the electric
and mechanical pump, while not as convenient, assures that you get
correct fuel pressure to the carbs no matter whether you are using both
or just one (the pressure will be the higher of the two pumps, no
more). Some light aircraft use this scheme - a mechanical and an
electrical pump in parallel for greater reliability. And it doesn't
make any difference whether one or both are operating. Of course it's
routine to fly on the mechanical and use the electrical just for
start-ups and perhaps take off (for greater reliability; there is no
difference in engine performance).
In the easier and more popular scheme of plumbing the pumps in series,
you will have too much fuel pressure when both are operating and not
enough when only one is working.
Why? The pressure of two pumps in series is greater than that of either
alone. It has been stated that it is additive and that it is root of
sum of squares function. I don't know which it is, but it is more. Of
course, you can follow the pair of pumps with a pressure regulator.
But you only use the electric pump for starting, you say? Fine. That
eliminates the high-pressure problem. But when only one pump is
working, there is pressure loss caused by the two check valves the fluid
must open in the "dead" pump. It's not a free ride unless you gut the
pump and take out the check valves.
Yes, I know the series connection is in use by several on the list. But
I strongly suspect that the float levels on those cars aren't what they
should be.
Call me a voice crying in the wilderness - call me whatever you want
(and you will have to go some to be original). But that's my story and
I'm sticking to it!
Pat Tobin

pickeringchash@juno.com

11/30/2000 04:19 PM




> > Brad -
get
and not

root
> Of course, you can follow the pair of pumps with a pressure regulator.
gut
Pat -
Thanks for the pat on the back. I'm responding to this because you
might find it interesting that if I switch on the electric fuel pump
while underway my fuel pressure doubles (I have a fuel pressure gauge in
my dash). I think this is because the mechanical pump pushes its 3#'s (+
or -) against the other side of the pressure regulator and the regulator
has to have a 3# differential and the result is 6#s which the electric
fuel pump is able to provide. Apparently, the extra pressure doesn't
push the gasoline backwards through the mechanical pump.
Charlie Pickering
'64 C Coupe

tobinp@ix.netcom.com

12/01/2000 06:29 AM

pickeringchash@juno.com wrote:
> Pat -
Charlie -
Well, just goes to show that exceptions prove the rule, I guess.
That sounds very strange. I tend to agree with your theory except that
I have never seen an electric pump that would do 6#. Most are about
3.5# to 4#, which was the pressure required by most carbureted US cars.
What kind of electric pump is it? On many the pressure can be reduced
by shortening the spring. The old Bendix electric, a classic design
used both for automotive and aircraft, and now sold by Facet (as the
larger, 6 volt pump) had available, as an option, a lighter spring.
That was the elegant way to get the pressure down to 356 figures of
about 2 lbs (Zenith).
How about running the pressure regulator after the outputs of both pumps
are combined? Should work OK, I think.
Pat Tobin


>

Duncan120@aol.com

12/01/2000 07:28 AM

For what it's worth...
Stewart Warner still makes a 6V electric pump that is built like a uh...er...
356.
Solid, heavy, and well built. Better than the old Bendix, although it seems
to be the same design.
Got mine from Speedway in Nebraska but haven't installed it yet. Cost about
$60 if I recall.
Ron
"Mr. Public Transportation"

tobinp@ix.netcom.com

12/01/2000 08:45 AM

Ron -
"In the old days," Bendix made, in addition to their regular pump (now
in PP's catalog as the "other" Facet), a very fancy pump that had
adjustable output pressure! There was a knob on the top. And it was
built like a brick 356. Does the SW have a knob on the top? I wonder
if it could be the same? Except that I think it would sell for a lot
more than $60 now.
Can you tell us where this SW pump is available?
Thanks,
Pat Tobin
Duncan120@aol.com wrote:

Duncan120@aol.com

12/01/2000 09:06 AM

In a message dated 12/1/00 2:54:43 AM Central Standard Time,
tobinp@ix.netcom.com writes:
<< Does the SW have a knob on the top? I wonder
if it could be the same? Except that I think it would sell for a lot
more than $60 now.
>>

Pat:
The SW does not have a knob on top. The instructions say that it is preset at
between 4 and 6lbs.
The model number is 235 B-D, 6V DC, 5 psi. Pos. or Neg. ground. Made in USA,
nice heavy die cast body.
I am not sure but I think it may be electromechanical.
Ron

pickeringchash@juno.com

12/01/2000 11:25 PM


>
about
Pat-
It's the 6v Facet (the old Bendix). It's pressure well exceeds 2 - 3
#'s... thus the pressure regulator. I believe it pushes out 6 - 8 #'s.


Let's see... that might work O.K. but what would happen if the
mechanical diaphram broke? Is there a check valve to prevent backwards
flow through the mechanical pump? (or forward flow down into the engine?)
I installed the electric pump for two reasons. 1.: To fill the carbs upon
start-up, and 2: To serve as a back-up to improve reliability (and peace
of mind) while on the road.

>>But after this long harangue, I would like to hear how Charlie
Pickering
did his installation. Charlie? <<
Problem is... my Coupe is in the shop in Boulder and my recall may not
be total as to exactly where I placed the cut-off valves and filters. My
installation is pretty much as you have described: Parallel from the
line from the tank and joining again after the pressure regulator. I
have one cut-off valve (which I leave open) after the mechanical pump,
and the other cut-off valve (also left open) is either before or after
the pressure regulator; I don't think it would matter much which it is.
This set up works fine for its intended purpose as noted above. There's
no need to use both at the same time which in my case yields 6 - 7 psi's
per my fuel gauge.
This set-up has one minor weakness. If the weather is hot and the front
of the car is significantly lower than the rear, pressure to the carbs
will be zero for a bit. If the pump is located just below the fuel tank
this would not occur, but then the system would be in series which is
probably O.K. as long as the system is used only for priming and as a
back-up. I like mine in the rear because it is more accessable.
Charlie

okitsme@ghia.sciencetools.com

12/02/2000 01:00 AM



> > How about running the pressure regulator after the outputs of both
Yes.
> (or forward flow down into the engine?)
No.

Matt


phil.c.carney@lmco.com

12/02/2000 01:23 PM

Pat:
if you hook up a test rig to investigate the parallel vs series issue with mechanical and electric fuel pumps, please post to the list. I have been running in series for a couple of years with no problems. I might mention I have a pressure regulator immediately following the electric pump because it put's out > 6psi if left unchecked.
Also might mention that i made rubber isolators between the pump and mount to cut down on the noise. This worked really good but of course you need to add a ground wire strap when you do this.
pcc

Smifer@aol.com

12/02/2000 03:49 PM

I keep hearing about "pressure regulators" when using an electric fuel
pump. Who makes them and where can they be bought? Please reply.
Brad Smith, Frankfort, KY
'59 Convt D 356A Super

phil.c.carney@lmco.com

12/04/2000 01:53 PM

I keep hearing about "pressure regulators" when using an electric fuel
pump. Who makes them and where can they be bought? Please reply.
Brad Smith, Frankfort, KY
'59 Convt D 356A Super
Brad:
I assume from the list traffic you have gotten some ideas on pressure regulators. I bought mine from JC Whitney. It is of the type that the geneberg site said NOT to use although I have not had any trouble with it. Well that is not exactly true. When I checked fuel pressure in the engine compartment with a guage, it was very different from the setting on the regulator itself. So I ended up setting regulator based on actual guage reading as opposed to what the regulator setting marks were.
Main concern on geneberg site seems to be that this type of regulator restricts fuel volume as opposed to just pressure. I always assumed that this regulator adjusted pressure by adjusting a spring length. Not sure why I assumed this, I guess it was from the exterior design appearance. I have experienced some surging when I have it opened up on the Interstate. After lots of looking I never did determine the exact problem/solution. I did open the regulator up some more (now running at 3.0 psi) and this seemed to help and didn't cause any low rpm problems. So maybe the geneberg comments were correct about this type of regulator and maybe I'll try a Holley regulator.
pcc




jgoggin@shasta.com

12/04/2000 05:22 PM

Phil,
Try www.mrgasket.com...click on Mallory...click on fuel pumps.
Joe
----- Original Message -----
From:
To: ; <356talk@356registry.org>
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2000 5:53 AM
Subject: RE: Electric Fuel Pump

> I keep hearing about "pressure regulators" when using an electric fuel
regulators. I bought mine from JC Whitney. It is of the type that the
geneberg site said NOT to use although I have not had any trouble with it.
Well that is not exactly true. When I checked fuel pressure in the engine
compartment with a guage, it was very different from the setting on the
regulator itself. So I ended up setting regulator based on actual guage
reading as opposed to what the regulator setting marks were.
restricts fuel volume as opposed to just pressure. I always assumed that
this regulator adjusted pressure by adjusting a spring length. Not sure why
I assumed this, I guess it was from the exterior design appearance. I have
experienced some surging when I have it opened up on the Interstate. After
lots of looking I never did determine the exact problem/solution. I did
open the regulator up some more (now running at 3.0 psi) and this seemed to
help and didn't cause any low rpm problems. So maybe the geneberg comments
were correct about this type of regulator and maybe I'll try a Holley
regulator.


jkh912@yahoo.com

04/26/2001 05:14 AM


Smifer@aol.com

04/26/2001 02:26 PM


al@allzim.com

04/26/2001 03:16 PM

Early model (1962 and earlier) fuel pump rebuild kits are $29.95. Late,
1963 and upwards are $25.95. We are currently out of stock on the late kits
but expect them immediately. al zim,
Zim's Autotechnik, 800.356.2964 thanks