I'd like to thank everyone for their help - i now fully understand and in the next couple of weeks it will be dialed in. Sincerely
Tim

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Well I'm ready to install the shims and cups and then go for an alignment. I presume the cups can be installed without pulling the engine. There is a lot of interference with the mount on the left side like the fuel line, clutch assembly, etc. What is the standard procedure for doing this- loosen spring plate nuts, support trans, remove one side at a time, install cup and shims, tighten then do the other one. Is it necessary to disconnect the linkage or remove any interfering obstacles and is prying the whole assemble with a bar to push it back required? I am guessing that you just center the bolt/nut at the spring plate, drive to the alignment shop and adjust it on their lift and remeasure until it hits spec. Thanks.
Tim

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To remove the front rubber mounts with the trans in place may prove to be difficult. Firstly the slots on the chassis side are angled upward while the trans boss has the slots angled downwards. All this means that you will not be able to just slide the rubber mount out. I’ve never attempted to do what you want to try, I always just remove the engine and trans since other problems always needed attention also. I would recommend you consider this approach you may some other revolting developments hiding out.

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Tim-The front trans mounts can be removed and installed without taking anything else apart. Loosen all 8 mount nuts. Remove the 4 on one side and wiggle jiggle and pry until it pops out. The other mount with the nuts in place but loose will keep the trans from falling lower. Attach the cup and shim and wiggle, jiggle, pry and tap it back into place. Leave the nuts loose. Repeat on other side. Tighten all nuts. Done.

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Cliff Murray

 

'55 Cabriolet Racer

'57 Speedster

'59 Sunroof

'63 Coupe Pushrod GS 2133

'67 911 S

Sorry, Larry, but Cliff is right. You can slide the mounts out. It does help to pry the trans/engine back a bit to loosen the mounts.

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Hey guys I didn't say it was impossible just difficult ! It is obvious Tim is new to this work so I just suggested engine and trans removal may be educational.

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Thank you. Larry- I have pulled engines and trans on 2 of my 356s and 912 a few times over the past 10 years. In fact I installed a 65 912 in the D 2 years ago. I'm slowly learning about mechanical things and taking it one step at a time. Next task is suspension setup. I have new kings and links but need to adjust the right front by switching a shim and get the rear in alignment by installing the cups and shims. A wheel bearing just went out (fortunately right front) so I plan on doing everything in, hopefully, one session. I've decided to do it under the supervision of a long time Porsche mechanic whose shop is 1 mile from the alignment shop. I agree that learning about our cars is the surest way of feeling comfortable on long out of state drives. My real learning will occur this winter when I disassemble the car for a bare metal restoration. I will soon have the mechanicals, underside and suspension sorted out so its mostly body work at this point. My plan to to remove as much as possible, seats, windshield, engine,etc., strip the paint in my shop and flatbead it to the body shop. I'll have the expert set the doors and other panels - then the fun begins reinstalling everything. I've learned that documentation and organization is paramount to success and plan a spread sheet and labeled plastic tubs. I'm sure I'll be posting for help along the way because I find this forum exceptional even with local Porsche guys assisting me.

One final question - is it necessary to uncouple the peace pipe (linkage) to install the cups? Seems like it will move everything back and may affect the transmission. I've adjusted the linkage on my C coupe but not on an A which looks more involved.
Tim

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You don't have to uncouple the linkage. HOWEVER...you might run into a problem if the horizontal stud in the linkage contacts the torsion bar tube afterwards. It could cause popping out of first gear and maybe 4th.

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Tim, there is no "peace pipe" on an "A" just a plain shifter rod with a clevis end at the shifter and a cut out to fit the ball joint at the "Monkey Motion".

You might consider pulling the part # 44 (tapered screw) before prizing the mounts out. It fits only one way so you will not lose your adjustment

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Hopefully the final question - Just so I get this correct- the caster on right front is 4.72 degrees so I need to adjust shims to get more positive caster. I've been told that its advisable to have slightly more caster on the right side due to the crown in the road (left is 5.07). If I can get it just over 5 I'll be happy. Please confirm which shims need too be switched - top/bottom inner/outer (I believe its top inner to top outer but not sure if you need the opposite on the lower arm)) and using .020 shims how many should be sufficient to get .35-40 degrees more positive. Thanks in advance.
Tim

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Consult your factory shop manual, it will tell you all you need to know.
BTW the shims on the C-carrier are for compensation of manufacturing tolerances of the trailing arm carrier interface.

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Tim- What Larry is saying is that you do not make alignment adjustments with the link pin shims. Only camber would change by changing the shim placement but doing so would cause the link pins to seize in the bushings due to misalignment. Ride height and toe are the only adjustments up front and the same is true in the rear except in the rear when you lower the car the camber changes due to the swing axle design. If you have camber and caster problems up front you have a bent car or bent suspension pieces.

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Cliff Murray

 

'55 Cabriolet Racer

'57 Speedster

'59 Sunroof

'63 Coupe Pushrod GS 2133

'67 911 S

Tim,

A good starting point is to measure the distance from the front spindle to the rear axle on both sides with the front wheels straight ahead and set the distance to factory spec's.
A simple protractor will give you a close camber angle.
Caster can be varied by raising or lowering the front torsion bars. When raised to the normal height the caster should fall in the spec. parameters.
Front camber is not (normally) adjustable.

This is a simple complicated procedure, best to find a shop familiar with VW's and give them the Porsche specs.
Mr Goodwrench is easily confused with our beasts.

Norm

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The saga continues. I'm posting this as much for information as for a heads up for future reference. I undertook the operation at a long time Porsche mechanic's shop and we worked together. We followed the advise posted here and placed the cups and one shim as per the factory manual to move the trans back. It took a bit, but not excessive, pressure to leverage clearance to get them on and I did not uncouple the linkage. Originally had only 1 shim per side so the difference was the cup. We seated the bolts and visually observed that they were bottomed out and symmetrical. Than I removed the nuts and bolts one at a time at the spring plates and installed proper wavy washers and flat washers and pried the transaxle and now they can be adjusted to set proper toe during alignment.

As Vic noted, it popped out of 1st and 3rd because the horizontal stud bottomed out on the torsion tube. Following Vic's advise, I adjusted the bolt on the stud and put a flat washer on each of the bolts behind the "banana" which further pushed the linkage toward the shifter allowing it complete clearance when in 1st and 3rd. It still popped out of those gears under torque even though the stud was not hitting the tube. We adjusted the shifter plates for the next 2-3 hours until frustration and the late hour suggested we stop to reassess and I limped home in 2nd and 4th.

There are many opinions on the cups and amount of shims but one thing became abundantly clear - the shims at the trans mounts have a major impact on the geometry of the trans and linkage and on an A extremely small changes can result in negative consequences. We disassembled the "monkey motion" and it takes considerable effort to engage gears manually and with the linkage connected you would have to jam the shifter to engage unless you go slow and with some force. I also note a difference in the harmonics and loudness of the transaxle when driving. "Momma said there would be days like these".

I could go back to essentially the starting point but with the cup only rather than 1 shim and see if that gets the trans working and attack the alignment at the spring plate slot. Checking soon to see if the nose is centered and shifter is vertical in neutral. Any thoughts would be helpful.
Tim

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double post

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