Freddy,
When a rivet is upset, it not only clamps in tensile, the shank diameter is increased to fill the available radial space.
What this means is that it prevents *any* relative movement between the joined parts. ANY movement at all will rapidly increase to the point of failure.
If you choose to bolt the parts together, you'll need to duplicate that registration, by press-fitting the bolts to reamed holes, fitting interference pins or similar.

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Freddy-
Did you check out the rivets I included, I think one was original.

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Hi Edwin,

I will get them on my A T2 Coupe that is a driver I use very often... and they will be painted and not chromed... so more prone to damage and rust than if chromed... so the possibility to redo them whenever I want without the need to produce and do complicated riveting is very attractive to me...

They will look like these bellow:



Hi Ron,

I am using the best possible stainless steel screws and nut and will glue them with loctite after done... the result is becoming quite interesting as you will see on the pictures bellow.

Hi Adam,

I am producing the screws based on the original rivet you sent me... I think it looks quite nice!!






Cheers,

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Freddy, what is your source for the rivet screws?

Were painted wheels delivered by the factory?

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Member 6386

356B Roadster 1962
911S Targa 1973

Freddy, I hope you magnafluxed the centres of the wheels before you re-assembled them...

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Freddy

I think your decision to paint them is great. Your statement "and they will be painted and not chromed... so more prone to damage and rust than if chromed..." is not quite correct, though. Having painted your wheels, they will be much easier to fix, in the event of damage. Chroming them makes them much harder, if not impossible, to fix. Good decision on your part. I, for one, much prefer the look of painted wheels, anyway. You will have one very cool looking outlaw!

Regards

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Hi Jim,

You are correct in the event of severe damage like hitting a curb or similar issues... when I said more prone to damage I meant stone chips or scratches from air filling the tires... but I agree that in case of any major problem on a chromed wheel the only way to repair it, is doing it all over while the painted wheels can simply be repainted! The only point that makes me reflect is when you said it will be a nice outlaw... I like most outlaws, but never thought about converting my Coupe to one... I am always focused on originality and period accessories... My Coupe arrived with no bumper guards, wrong wiper knob, terrible steering wheel, wide wheels, Super hubcaps, wrong radio face plate, etc... and I am having fun bringing it back to factory delivery appearance...

I see the Rudge wheels as a period accessory for the car... OK I guess the factory offered them chromed... but there were a lot of cars with painted Rudge wheels, such as the 330SL, the Facel Vega and even the early 356s... Am I turning my Coupe into an outlaw by using painted Rudge wheels?

Hi Joris, The wheels are not assembled yet... I think you are right and I will magnaflux them before assembling... good decision for those moments of high speed driving at the highway!!

Hi Edwin, I got these screws produced locally by one of these ultra modern high precision machines that did all of them at once in stainless steel... the not very cheap but durable items... so far they cost me around $1.000 for all wheels. Regarding painted Rudge wheels, I guess they only offered them chromed... but I think our good friend Charlie White will be able to inform if he ever saw a painted one on one of the Porsche booklets...

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Freddy,

I did see painted Rudge knock off wheels on a black coupe here in Phoenix many years ago, but have no idea if they were original to the car, or if they were painted by a later owner, but I wouldn't bet much cash on my memory that far back!

The 356-A factory accessory catalogs only mention "chrome" knock off wheels. The 356-A and B T-5 parts books also only mention "chrome" knock off wheels, and they have the same part number (644.68.010). This again, is probably one of those situations where if you had the cash, the factory would probably have given you painted knock off wheels. I think I'd have to wait to see it on a kardex or CoA.

CW

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Charlie White

Painted Rudges can be seen on:

550-05 on pages 136-137 in Ludvigsen and Condradt book (English edition)

page 85 with the famous scene of Peter, Wolfy, Gerd and Butzi (presumably 1954) with a Cabrio and early Spyder.

Page 11 of Sloniger 4-cam book, page 11, Humpback 550/4

But nothing on later Porsche cars than those references. On M-B Gullwings, yes, but not on the later Roadsters.

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I agree with you Ron about rivet theory, and it is indeed important in most applications where the designed joint is for rivets. Point well made. But when I saw the subsequent pictures of the nuts and bolts Freddy has had made I predict he won't have much problem with radial movement. Those nuts are fairly stout have a lot of surface area, and there are 12 of them. If they are made for a tight fit, even a slight interference fit like you mention, these sure look adequate to keep things together. As a caution I'd suggest that they be checked shortly after being run a bit and periodicaly afterwards. Even if they are an interference fit, when they're torqued, they'll stretch a bit and somewhat negate that fit. So, I'd check on them every so often.

And,...they sure are pretty.

Freddy

I shouldn't have referred to your car as an "outlaw". I will have a unique personal touch to it, though. I can't wait to see the pictures.

Regards

Jim

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Freddy,
Have the nuts drilled and get them SS safety wired ...like race cars....you won"t be sorry.....

I am sorry but I would not install Rudge wheels even in my daily driver...let a long $400K Carrera...

Hey Guys My sincere Opinion ..Do not make a big deal about it and open a big chat room....
I just do not think they are safe and do not go well with 356 design....
Best Health ,
Ibrahim Kuzu
# 5145

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Nice Job Freddy.
Yes I am recently having that insecure feeling when I am driving in the highway. specially that I am still missing the spare wheel

But I do love the look . specially in the speedster.

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I'm a little late to this conversation but John Willhoit restored a set of Rudges for me a few years back and they came out perfect.

As far as the original rivets, he welded the wheels together and used polished stainless steel rivets so that they appeared correct.

Anyone who has driven on Rudges for any length of time will tell you that the rivets/areas around them will eventually crack if you are going to use these wheels to do any serious driving.

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I also heard that Rudge wheels can destroy the drivability of your 356... people say they are heavy... looking at the tech articles on the Registry website http://www.356registry.org/tech/wheels.html the difference is 4.5lbs/wheel... 19.5lbs for the Rudge and 15lbs for KPZ or Lemmerz... no big deal I think…

Comparing the drivability of the alloy-steel (9.5lbs) to the steels wheels I have to confess I do not see a big difference on the feeling at normal driving... So as long as the area around the rivets is not cracked I do not see a reason to be afraid of them... they do look nice and will go on my AT2 Dame Sunroof Coupe that is a driver and spends some time being driven in the city and also enjoys some spirited 110mph driving on the highway... no racetrack turns or races against the clock!!

And I have to agree with Omar, Steve and Jim that they look very nice... I never heard complaints from the Gullwing Mercedes guys about them…

There goes another shot of a beautiful black Coupe with painted Rudges:



I think it will look even better on an ivory car

Ibrahim, no worries on installing them on the Carrera... they will stay on the Coupe... the Carrera will remain with its original GT vented drums together with the alloy-steel wheels... I wouldn't mess up with its originality

Regarding the idea of SS wiring the nuts... it seems nice, but I think that Loctiting them will be enough... anyway I will keep on checking the wheels for any loose nut as suggested by Steve.

I am quite curious to see any change on the drivability of the car... as soon as it is installed I will give an honest opinion about it!!

Jordan, your wheels look gorgeous!! Would you have pictures of your car with them on? BTW would you be able to tell us your findings on the drivability of the car when you moved from the normal wheels to the Rudge ones?

Once more, many thanks folks for all the kind comments!! I hope to come up with new pictures soon!

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